Dispatches From Trump's America: Formerly Known As The 2016 Election Thread

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by DavidA, May 11, 2015.

  1. gouis

    gouis Well-Known Member

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    Also this whole discussion is beyond infuriating. There are people in this discussion that have lots of real world experience and training in education. And yet their opinion is given equal footing to people who are just speaking off the cuff and making shit up because that's what they read on some blog (or what they experienced personally which is not a valid way to discuss facts). It's a perfect microcosm of why the internet has failed.
     
  2. DTKnuckles

    DTKnuckles Well-Known Member

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    Yes teachers are moving away from this model as well. Especially in the English as a Second Language classes, but it still exists.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  3. DTKnuckles

    DTKnuckles Well-Known Member

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    And my campaign for school board member begins.

    Seriously though there is a lot of ignorance out there regarding the ed system. I don't mind discussing it because ultimately the school system is probably one institution that everybody comes into contact with. There is a lot of potential for the system to do a lot more than it already does.
     
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  4. nolady

    nolady Well-Known Member

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    Louisiana parent here of SN kids, and this is absolutely a thing.

    All three of my kids have IEPs. One of them is in talented art, and will probably end up screening into gifted. One of them has a cognitive delay and behavior issues, and the other has behavior issues but no cognitive delay. I feel the real impact of non-conformity to some sort of norm, because that's all three of my kids. I worry about bullying every day. And I worry about getting my kids the right services in the right place. I am sticking with public school because I found that they are best equipped to handle my three little anomalies.

    With my boys, I need them to be around neurotypical kids so they can learn some basics of social behavior. When other parents/people start talking about how individual their kid is and how they don't want him or her to totally conform, I do an internal eye roll. If you want to see some really "individual" behavior that REEEEAAAALLLLYYYY doesn't conform to societal standards, hang out with us for a while. Every kid, even back in the day when we were living in hunter/gatherer groups has always needed to somewhat conform to some societal standards. Even really creative and amazingly unique people still do things like shop for groceries, talk to people, order at a restaurant, sit down and eat a meal with others, go out into the world and deal with the smells and sounds, etc. You get my point. We cannot just totally shun human organization and expect to generate money to feed, house and clothe ourselves. When you are afraid to take your kid places because of extreme behaviors, you start to realize that maybe a little bit of conformity isn't all that bad.

    Standardized testing sucks. It sucks even more if your kid is not neurotypical, but it's also necessary to see where there are holes in what is getting through. My oldest son has a condition where he hears something coming in, but it gets scrambled in his head, so he processes it all wrong. Once we can figure out how to tell him something in such a way that he processes it correctly, he will never forget this thing as long as he lives. But we have to get it into his head the right way first. This is where testing comes in. If we can see what he's not getting, we can add it to his learning plan. Should standardized testing be the end all and be all? Absolutely not. It shouldn't define school placement or teacher effectiveness alone. It should be a tool, much like a psychological screening instrument where someone can see where they should start.

    Yes, more should be done and yes, kids should be taught to think independently and come up with creative ideas for problems. Kids shouldn't be put into boxes, but realize that the way work is currently structured in the US, workers are expected to do boring, repetitive tasks, and are held up to certain rigid standards--like a time clock and dress codes. Some people are even required to take standardized tests to get certifications. Ultimately, school is here to get you ready to go out into the world and be productive. As for suicide, the highest rate of suicides happen in people 20-24 y/old. Statistics suggest that half of all depression goes untreated. People in the LGBT community tend to attempt suicide more often than their heterosexual counterparts. This, to me, indicates that we need to look at the way we talk to kids about depression and how we talk to kids who may be LGBT--actually the whole societal narrative around LGBT. We continue to treat mental health conditions as moral failings and when we do this, we tell kids that they feel crappy because they are bad people. If you are overly anxious, it's because you need to unwind, never mind the fact that an overly anxious person has no tools available to them to "unwind". If you are depressed, you just need to get over it. We are telling kids that they are weak if they don't suck it up and deal. We, as parents, need to be honest with ourselves when it comes to our kids. We need to be proactive. We need to create an environment where we listen to our kids because today they are talking to us about Yugi-oh cards and dinosaurs, but depending on how we listen right now, they will decide if it is even worth their time to talk to us about their real, big, scary problems tomorrow. We need to be the ones to model that it's okay to get help if you need it.
     
  5. Chucktshoes

    Chucktshoes Well-Known Member

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    I actually get the value of data (a long time friend of mine works for the Data Quality Campaign), but I take issue with how the tests taken over the classrooms. I think our differences in perspective at this point probably boil down a lot to our presuppositional worldviews. I view our society as suffering a sickness at its core and fundamentally at odds with how we evolved to live. All of our systems have been built to support that society. Our technology outpaced or biology and we are are all suffering.


    The levels of suicide don’t stop after HS, they continue. It’s just that they are starting younger, and I think it’s just more evidence that we are shoving more and more on these kids at younger and younger ages. The accumulated issues that used to manifest in early adulthood now have a 10 year headstart.

    That’s something I could have made more explicitly clear. It’s all related. Education from pre-k to post grad is one complete system and the issues all interrelate. Attempting to handle the problems piecemeal is doomed to failure because the system will reassert itself.

    This is how I fear I sound right now.

    D629792F-79EA-4E5A-AB0C-23E89C03AA66.jpeg

    After my initial flame out in this thread I reassessed how I handled some things. That coincided with my withdrawal from the big social media platforms. I allowed myself to get too wrapped up in arguing with folks on the interwebs. /s/I’m sure you’re just flabbergasted that I would be the type of person to do that./s/ So at this point I strive (and more often than I would like, fail) to only engage in a reasoned manner with folks. If folks respond to me with only overt snark or dismissal, then there’s no value in continuing discussion. It’s not healthy for anyone so I try to disengage or just ignore altogether.
     
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  6. DTKnuckles

    DTKnuckles Well-Known Member

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    All parents have the ability to opt out of their children taking these tests.

    As to the second part of that paragraph. I was listening to a podcast one time that mentioned that the reason why Roman legions were organized into 50 soldiers is that they found the organization and interconnection fell apart. I think that this may be happening in society which causes the need for governance and institutions to organize society.


    I agree with all of this. The world that kids have to deal with now is not the world I had to when I was this age. It is changing childhood and society. However, I don't have the stats off hand, but other countries are in much better shape MH wise. I wonder what are the differences?
     
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  7. Chucktshoes

    Chucktshoes Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the taking of the tests for a few days a year that is the problem. It’s the way the tests have taken over the rest of the year in the classroom. At one time I supported the idea of tying teacher evals to test scores. I understand how woefully shortsighted that idea was now. When everything from funding to enployment is tied to test scores, the only thing that is taught in the classroom is the test.

    There’s a lot of really interesting work that theorizes humans evolved to operate in groups of 30-150 people. Beyond that the bonds break down and harms the sense unity of tribe. So when divisions arise or the tribe gets to big, it splits. We’ve built a society that makes operating to design impossible. What the solution to that problem is outside of spacebourne outward migration and colonization, I don’t know.
     
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  8. DTKnuckles

    DTKnuckles Well-Known Member

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    It's an AAA problem.
     
  9. DTKnuckles

    DTKnuckles Well-Known Member

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    I was referencing your analogue purity, meaning that it has been a problem from the beginning.
     
  10. jaycee

    jaycee Well-Known Member

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    Thanks and what you're saying may be true now but school psychologists didn't exist where I grew up. Also, my parents couldn't have afforded a lawyer even if they were aware enough to think of that as an option. I was being confined under PA truancy laws, which I think have changed since I was a kid.

    http://www.wesa.fm/post/pa-s-new-tr...elines-schools-more-options-students#stream/0

    I ended-up in a different school in a different place with much smaller class sizes that really helped me at the time. Yes, I made it to adulthood, have a doctorate degree, a job, I function.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  11. jaycee

    jaycee Well-Known Member

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    You can pay not to participate in it either by sending your children to a private school or with your time by homeschooling them, but you can't just opt-out for free. You don't have the freedom to take your kids out of the system and make them farmers for instance (see history of Amish schooling in PA).
     
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  12. indiemisanthrope

    indiemisanthrope Well-Known Member

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    Well, true, but I didn't mean to suggest that people had the freedom to opt out of education altogether, just the narrow scope of the public system that I was addressing, because I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that @Chucktshoes did not carry the same objections to the same degree for private/charter/home education.

    In any case, I think it's probably a societal net good to require enrollment in an educational system. For every student whose situation is exacerbated by something or someone in the school environment, there are others who benefit from the (sometimes nominal) guardrails for minor welfare that it provides.
     
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  13. RenegadeMonster

    RenegadeMonster Well-Known Member

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  14. RenegadeMonster

    RenegadeMonster Well-Known Member

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    Wow this thread has been busy and I haven't received a single notification of new replies since @lee newman posts above so I haven't even found my self in here.

    Catching up now.

    Did any of you catch the story on the nightly news last night about Trump wanting to make immigration policies via executive order that is targeted at legal immigrants?

    They want to make it so you can't get a green card or citizenship if you or any family members or friends have utilized public assistance including Obama Care. You need help, you can't legally stay in the United States, we are going to ship you home.

    Like WTF.
     
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  15. Crunchewy

    Crunchewy Well-Known Member

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    Trump's "Very Fine People" coming to DC this weekend. Not looking forward to that, though I hope some of them get punched in the face
     
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  16. jaycee

    jaycee Well-Known Member

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    I'm still confused how anyone who verbally threatens another person or institution with a violent act can be charge with making terroristic threats but racists who openly state their desire to commit genocide and kill anyone who stands in their way are protected under the 1st amendment and we call it hate speech.

    Hate speech is freedom but taking a knee during the national anthem isn't. Ahh American hypocrisy - just can't get enough.

    Get out your lighter fluid and fan those tiki torch flames - literally.
     
  17. 6od

    6od Well-Known Member

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    so i heard this song for the first time recently and it’s very, very good. the last 50 seconds are perfection:

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  18. RenegadeMonster

    RenegadeMonster Well-Known Member

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    Aw bummer that we didn't get to hold Jeff Sessions in Contempt of court over ICE deporting a family who was in the middle of an emergency court hearing to determine if they are eligible for asylum.
     
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  19. RenegadeMonster

    RenegadeMonster Well-Known Member

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  20. jaycee

    jaycee Well-Known Member

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    If you're a white supremacist, neo-nazi, caucasianist, run of the mill bigot or whatever else you might be calling yourselves these days please, pretty-please, out yourself.
     
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