PLX-1000/Denon 103/Sutherland Insight

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Slimwhit, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Looking to upgrade my vinyl playback... I have Uturn orbit with updated platter and Ortofon Blue cart going through a Vincent PHO-8.

    With $2500, what would you do?

    I want to get a MOFI Ultradeck at some point, but that takes basically the whole budget. And will I get the benefits of the upgraded table without a new phono amp?

    The other option is the Sutherland Insight (thanks HiFi Guy). But will I get enough out of that using my UTurn?

    What would you guys do? Have also considered the Sutherland KC Vibe and a Marantz 8005 SACD player to bump a little on both the vinyl and digital stages (I use both equally).

    Just looking for some insight.. thanks in advance!
     
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  2. Corycm

    Corycm Well-Known Member

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    What's your speaker sitch look like? All good there?
     
  3. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    I'm very happy with my speaker set up.. SVS Ultra Bookshelves and as SVS SB2000 sub to fill in the low end..
     
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  4. displayname

    displayname Well-Known Member

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    Personally with that budget, I think go all in with the TT OR the phono.
    I think you if you get the TT, you'll notice a difference, but you won't reach the full potential until you get a phono later. But I'm sure you'll notice a difference.
    Same goes for the phono. You'll notice it, but won't reach it's full potential until you upgrade TT and cart. But it doesn't sound like this will be your last purchase, so I think take a huge step and be done with that section.

    Doing something like a split with the bumping two areas probably will leave you shopping around sooner than later.
    If you go all in with the TT, you can really look forward to moving towards that new phono. Same if you go all in on the phono.

    If you have a quality system (as you do) I think it makes sense to focus on BIG steps, rather than ongoing little steps. I have this same issue, and I try to push myself to remember that the little steps are fun, but the big steps are what drop your jaw and create memories.
     
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  5. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    The turntable and phono stage both work hand in hand. To get the best from both, you'll need to upgrade both.

    The KC Vibe I returned is on sale at 20% off at Music Direct. It'll be a nice boost in performance from the Vincent.

    Me? I'd get the Insight and the Marantz. You'll still be under budget and a performance boost in both sides- of course that depends on your CD situation now.

    Yes, you'll hear the difference, even with the UTurn. You'll hear a big difference too when you eventually upgrade to the MoFi.
     
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  6. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    displayname and HiFiGuy, thanks for your input.

    display: I agree with what your saying and that was kind of why I was struggling. I feel like I want to make one more upgrade on each of my components in the next couple years. I agree that taking smaller steps is just going to leave me less than satisfied and will probably cost me in the long run.

    HiFi: I saw your KC Vibe and had it in my basket at one point! Funny you should say to go with the Insight and Marantz because that is exactly what I currently have sitting in my cart. If I go this route, i can get either the ClearAudio Concept Black MC or the MoFi Ultradeck with MasterTracker cartridge next year.
     
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  7. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    You know which one I'll recommend. ;)

    As I'm sure you know by now, I don't really do digital. I can't remember the last time I fired that side of my system up. Nor do I have any plans at all to change something I don't use. That said, if I had to buy a new SACD player today, it'd be a Marantz.

    The thing about digital is you can spend x dollars and not experience the same improvement in sound that you will with the same money spent on analog. Of course YMMV.
     
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  8. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    I do know which one you'll recommend!! lol

    When I really want to "listen" to music I go vinyl. But when I start to get tired, or want some background when i'm reading a magazine or something, I go to CD's or online.. just so I don't have to keep getting up! lol

    I have a few hundred CD's. I have no SACD's, so I'll start grabbing a few...
     
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  9. SKOT_FREE

    SKOT_FREE Well-Known Member

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    If I had $2500 I’d probably buy a technic 1200GR for $1700 and the rest would go to an integrated Receiver and speakers and call it a day. At this point I’ve spent on my setup:

    - Technics 1200 G $4000
    -Marantz 6008 Network Receiver $275
    - Rectilinear Lowboy $79
    -2 Bose 201’s $40

    Grand total $4394 so far.
     
  10. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    So... first I want to thank everyone for your input.

    For now, I have decided to upgrade/change the vinyl side only. I'll think about the digital next year.

    I want to eventually have a vintage-like system. Old McIntosh or Fischer amps, mix in some new Klipsch Heresy III maybe....

    For now, to dip my toes in, I purchased a vintage Yamaha YP-B4 turntable that is fully restored and has a new dust cover. I love the looks of this table.. can't wait for it to arrive.

    I'm considering supplementing this new (old) table with a new Dynavector 10x5 MC cart and a Graham Slee Reflex MC phono stage. Is that overkill? This will not be my last table clearly, and I figure having a good cartridge/phono stage combo will be beneficial going forward.

    $2100 all in, and leaves me $400 to spend on new vinyl, which is always a plus!

    I will report back once everything has been received and post some pics.

    In the meantime, anyone have any experience with any of these items?
     
  11. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    I had a Dynavector DV-10x4 years ago. You'll like the Dynavector. No stylus guard. Be careful.
     
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  12. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    Stop! You bought the Reflex MC? That's the wrong version for the Dynavector. You need the Reflex MM. The Dynavector is a high output MC designed to work with MM phono stages. It has a 2.5 mV output. Low output MCs have .3-.6 mV output (the majority anyway). You've selected incompatible products. You need either:

    Reflex MM- Dynavector 10x5
    Reflex MC- a low output MC
     
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  13. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that at some point I'll end up with the MoFi deck, I just couldn't really make it work right now funds wise.

    I will be doing a lot of reading over the next few days prepping for the cart attachment. Hopefully it all goes smoothly!
     
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  14. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    I haven't ordered the phono stage yet and this is exactly why.. I knew I had another question! Thanks for the info! Your advice is appreciated!
     
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  15. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    Why not a stage that can handle both MM and low output MC?
     
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  16. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Its probably a good idea. My initial thought process was that people are pretty adamant about MC carts sounding "better". I just figured I would stick with the MC carts going forward.

    But having the flexibility is also nice, and now that I know that an MM is the stage for the Dynavector, I may go that route.

    I really wanted the Insight... but getting that right now means I cant get any new vinyl, and I've picked out some winners!! Maybe I can stretch another $200. Or just go for the Vibe and more albums... wwyd?
     
  17. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    Here's what I'd do:

    I'd certainly buy the Vibe over the Graham Slee. It sounds great and gives you flexibility. Build quality is better too. And less money.

    The Dynavector is kind of an odd duck. The advantage of MC over MM is lower moving mass. Dynavector could have gotten higher output two ways: more windings on the coils (likely) or bigger/more powerful magnets (unlikely due to light weight- most of the Dyna's weight is from the alloy mounting block. Of course being being an MC, a non user replaceable stylus. So you aren't getting the full benefit of a low output MC, but you are getting the downside. I really like the Dyna, but have an issue with $650. The previous version (that I had) was $350.

    I'd probably look towards a Denon DL-103. It's a classic for a reason, and should match well to the arm on the Yamaha. It's a true low output MC. Available on eBay under $250.

    So, with that in mind, the Denon and the Insight would be less than the Slee and Dyna.
     
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  18. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Thats great info...

    I see a 103 and a 103R. R worth the extra $40-50?
     
  19. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    The R has .22mV output. The 103 has .3 mV output- although the one you get may be a bit higher. Each cartridge comes with an individual printout by serial number. Get the regular 103.

    You'll need 60 dB gain (either Sutherland will do this) and between 100-1000 ohms loading (in my system I'd go 100-200 ohms) but you can set this by ear. The higher the resistance (ohms) the more treble output you get.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  20. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Insight and the 103 it is!

    Thanks for all the information, as always!

    I'll post back once I get everything!
     
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