Room Set-up Issue.. I’ve lost my center imaging..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Slimwhit, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    12F2055B-D7A4-444A-BE41-392D108C2D86.jpeg CD9D92E6-4F21-4670-91B3-842331B94D97.png D00207E0-E6BE-4E04-AF52-81AB8A5EA361.jpeg F64D61C0-42F3-49CA-8B03-05BF23E76215.jpeg I am having a bit of an issue and was hoping to lean on you for any possible ideas.

    I’ve explained my room issues previously (10x10 w/8ft ceilings). Not ideal but it’s the room I deal with.

    Last night I rearranged my room a bit, and have seemingly lost my center voice imaging, if I’m explaining it correctly. I could previously sit in the center of the couch, close my eyes, and hear the vocals centralized between the speakers. Now I close my eyes and I hear it coming from both speakers.

    Old setup is pics 2 and 4, new is 1 and 3. Couch is a foot or so off back wall. Old set up had a desk in middle of front wall with standed bookshelves (SVS Ultra) on each side of it. Left speaker is approx. 18 inches from back wall and 2 ft from open door on side wall. Right speaker was also 18 inches from back wall and maybe 6-12 inches from side wall. Two. Small absorption panels behind each speaker, and a larger one between the two speakers. Sub under desk between two front speakers.

    Right side wall consisted of two 24” bookshelves next to each other followed by a 6 cube album holder.

    Last night I moved the 6 cube to the front wall, separated the two bookshelves on the right side wall, and put the desk between them. No other changes were made.

    Any ideas about why I can’t get the center imaging locked in? I checked my connections and everything is correct. I tried toeing in and out. I moved the speakers closer and farther apart. I moved my seating area further and closer to the front and back walls. Nothing worked and now I’m lost.

    As seen in the pictures, the desk is not near as dense as the 6 cube. Could that be causing an issue.

    I’m clueless. Any advice would be appreciated.
     
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  2. displayname

    displayname Well-Known Member

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    Ok, the order of the pictures threw me off for a second, but I think the desk vs the cube are significant, and the move of the sub from the center to the right side is significant.

    I'm no expert by any means, but just trying to logic through it. The cube might be throwing reflections from the hard sides for what used be nice open breathable space. And looking at it from a geometry stance, the right channel has an inner reflecting wall (the cube) and a semi absorbing wall (books shelf with books). Left side has an inner reflecting wall (cube) and wide open outer space. And than add the cross pattern of the sub pushing engergy to the open space? No idea if that happens, but throwing out theory here.
    The sub might have helped bring everything together in the center, but that cross throw could maybe be mudding things up? All speculation honestly, but it makes sense in my brain.

    I'd say start by just moving the sub back to the center. Just put it in front of the cube and see how much that changes things... if at all.

    If that isn't it, I'd think it's the cube. My initial though was they might need more space, but you already covered that.
     
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  3. kvetcha

    kvetcha Well-Known Member

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    Try some toe-in, too.

    edit: from SVS's site - "SVS recommends starting with the front loudspeakers located 30-degrees to the left and right (i.e., a 60-degree total window) of the listening position. Toeing-in the loudspeakers 5-10 degrees can often improve imaging, however this is also a function of the distance from nearby boundaries and the ratio of direct-to-reflected sound, so experimentation with toe-in is recommended to obtain optimal results."
     
  4. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    I'd try it to move the speakers closer together. When placed correctly, your sonic image will snap info focus.
     
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  5. SonOfJames

    SonOfJames Guest

    Most subwoofer experts will tell you sub frequencies are bi directional and center or L/R placment should not matter much, but not all subwoofers act the same way either.

    I would start with removing the subwoofer temporarily and seeing if your Imaging pops back in. If it does then you know instantly the problem is with the sub.

    Also having room treatment directly behind the speakers is not something I have seen before. This could also be affecting Imaging. Room treatment generally you want to place them on the side walls at the point of first reflection and in the corners to trap bass.

    I also believe Tow in is important to lock the center image in. This is something you should also play with.

    The new desk surface the turntable is on could also be affecting your sonics. Can you go back to the previous unit and see what happens or place your turntable on a piece of MDF. Perhaps that desk is not the best thing for your table.

    I'm betting at some point playing with everything that you'll get it back.
     
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  6. uvwxVinyl

    uvwxVinyl Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert on position but you are using completely different gear in the two set ups. Apologies if I'm stating the obvious but surely that's going to have a completely different dynamic right?

    Or did you have the same gear in the old setup and only the pics aren't up to date with the new stuff (i.e. The Sutherland).
     
  7. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Old pictures just showing the setup.
     
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  8. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for the suggestions and thoughts. I didn’t have an opportunity to change things last night, so will work in some of these suggestions and report back soon.
     
  9. SonOfJames

    SonOfJames Guest

    One other thought... any new electronic gear or speakers may require a break in period that will get better over a short amount of time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2018
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  10. AnthonyI

    AnthonyI Well-Known Member

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    I'd kill for a 10x10 room dedicated to my vinyl listening pleasure ;)
     
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  11. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    So.. I switched the desk back between the two speakers, and was again getting that central image. The speakers didn't like having the bulky records between them evidently. I ordered a rack to put the equipment on and the desk will be relegated to another room. Thanks for all of your advice!
     
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  12. kvetcha

    kvetcha Well-Known Member

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    You might be able to get around it by just pulling the speakers a little further into the room, just ahead of the desk.
     
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  13. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but a square room isn't ideal.
     
  14. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    The room is only 10x10.. I tried that but they were then only about 4 ft from my listening position.. and i couldn't bring them far enough out to make the center image snap back in.. the room has many shortfalls.. just trying to make the best of it until one of the kids moves out and I steal their bedrooms..lol
     
  15. lee newman

    lee newman Well-Known Member

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    Just move one of the kids into that room...
     
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  16. AnthonyI

    AnthonyI Well-Known Member

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    ....i'd still take it ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  17. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    I have tried dropping hints to the wife.. she ain't budging.. lol
     
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  18. Slimwhit

    Slimwhit Well-Known Member

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    AB09F968-9F35-42A9-89F4-CD19BE93B7B4.jpeg Got the new stand. New speaker wire coming today. Wire cleanup tonight.

    Having less mass between the speakers does wonders in this small room. I’m satisfied.
     
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  19. AnthonyI

    AnthonyI Well-Known Member

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    That's fantastic! Where did you get the equipment stand?
     
  20. displayname

    displayname Well-Known Member

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    Second, that looks sharp. I think it would work well for my second system.
     
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