"State of the VMP Union"

Discussion in 'Vinyl Me, Please Info' started by PaulyB, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. PaulyB

    PaulyB Provider of Dank Solutions™ Staff Member

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    Hey y'all :D

    So, this has been a long time coming, but I am here to address a few things regarding this forum, how its run, and how some things need to change. I will not be calling anyone out, nor will I be pointing any fingers. But I think the past couple of months, and for sure since the start of 2017, I have seen some things go down in here that need to be addressed.

    First and foremost, this is the Vinyl Me, Please forum. This is a place for VMP members, past members, or folks interested in the community, and Vinyl, to come and hangout with like-minded folks. Talk about movies, music, politics, anything and everything. But most of all, MUSIC :)
    One of my favorite things about this forum are the variety of personalities and opinions. The amount of music I have been introduced to from here (Metal thread REPRESENT), the awesome stories that have been shared, and the way this community has come together has always been one of my favorite things about my job.

    But then there is the ugly side of the forum. The side of the forum that makes this community seem toxic. This side is not representative of the whole forum, but in the biggest, and most popular threads, things have been taking nasty turns.
    Folks are arguing, name calling, and taking shots at one another. I understand this is the internet, and to think everyone will get along just fine is naive to think. But this is a VMP forum. We pay for this. So that means we make the rules. And the list of rules is really short. Only one rule; DON'T BE A JERK.
    This rule has been broken so many times this year, that it pains me to see the staff here at VMP just want to ignore this community, because they don't want to deal with the negativity.

    I have fought for this forum more than a couple times here at VMP. I have always stated that this is a community that we can't let go, or destroy. That this community is, in my opinion, what VMP is really all about. But this community is not growing like it should be. This community is not thriving like it should be (in my opinion). We all are so quick to take shots at someone, but don't really think about the fact that the same thing brought all of us here; A love for music. So why can't we get along?

    The fact of the matter is, Things need to change, or this community will be gone. Period.

    This forum only has room for positivity. Any negativity, and it becomes no better than my damn facebook feed (and that my friends, is the worst). You all say you want more staff presence, and we get that. But the bulk of our staff is busy trying to make VMP the best it can be, and they can’t take as much time as some of us to be on here. That can’t and should not be held against them. My job at VMP is to be a customer support rep, but you guys need to remember that other staff on here are not official customer service reps, and are only on the forum because they want to be part of the community here with you. When every thread becomes a hotbed of arguing problems with VMP, or some way we’re “ruining” the club, it’s draining and toxic. There needs to be more compassion for our staff as people first, and representatives of the company second. That some of our staff needs to take regular breaks, or isn’t on here much at all is sad, and is not because we can’t take criticism; we all deal with that in more channels than just the forum all day long. If you guys have account issues you want addressed here, you can find me in the Support Thread. This isn’t to say we don’t want discussions about ROTM selection, or store picks or whatever. We can’t just keep having every thread devolve into arguments and attacks like they have been.

    Also, it should be said that none of this means we don't want to hear complaints, or don't value criticism. We welcome it 100%, we (and Myself especially) just need it to be put in one place, where we can actually address it, without having to sift through pages and pages of posts, just looking for some context. We know that when folks are complaining about something, or bringing notice to an issue they have with the service, its because all of you really care about making this club better, and when we do something that rubs you the wrong way, you want it to change so that you don't feel like you have to leave to get us to listen.

    So, this isn't going to be a locked thread by any means. I REALLY want folks to come here whenever they feel like they need to be heard with something regarding the forums. The main threads can't keep going so far off track, as it drives people away from the forum when they just see people arguing :/ But I still want to hear from the community in regards to making this forum better. So what do you all think? How can we facilitate positive behavior in here? What can we do differently?
     
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  2. wokeupnew

    wokeupnew Well-Known Member

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    All this toxic behavior is actually news to me :eek:

    I guess I'm sticking around in the right threads since I never see it :D:)

    EDIT: everyone, "be a don't jerk!"

    upload_2017-9-13_12-19-19.png
     

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  3. kickerofelves

    kickerofelves Well-Known Member

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    One thing I've heard regarding moments like these - when the gravity of a situation fails, and the resulting negativity doesn't pull you through - is to under no circumstances put on any airs when you're down on Rue Morgue avenue. Hope this helps! Byyyyyyeeeee
     
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  4. PaulyB

    PaulyB Provider of Dank Solutions™ Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Ryan1310

    Ryan1310 Well-Known Member

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    I'm new here and am at best a low frequency participant so I haven't really seen much of the ugliness referenced above, but I certainly don't want this forum to go away.

    I don't have any useful suggestions other than to just ignore the jerks (which I know is easy for me to say as a casual observer).
     
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  6. notgabewhite

    notgabewhite Well-Known Member

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    Didn't @Severan make this same kind of thread a year ago?
     
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  7. wokeupnew

    wokeupnew Well-Known Member

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    kvetcha, nolady and mcherry like this.
  8. M Penny

    M Penny Well-Known Member

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    So why not introduce a shorter leash and ban those people that are bringing down the community? Talk to them once, then if they keep doing it, see ya.
     
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  9. PaulyB

    PaulyB Provider of Dank Solutions™ Staff Member

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    He did, but I wanted to make a new thread, rather than piggy back on his for two reasons;
    One being, while he said basically what I wanted to say, so much has changed since even then, that I didn't want the same tone that he went with in his post.
    Two being, he is not around much anymore, so I didn't want to rope in one of his threads, with his thoughts. Might as well start fresh, with a thread just from ya boi :)
    We are going to start doing this for sure. We have been pretty laid back about it, but I think to get the forum to where we want it to be, we need to start enforcing the whole "Dont be a Jerk" thing more! Just need to formulate the best action plan for that with the mods. Any changes that come from this thread, I will edit the post to include them going forward!
     
  10. Enoch

    Enoch Well-Known Member

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    I think there were some really toxic things that happened but I also feel that now any complaint is now viewed as toxic or the "complaintee" is viewed as toxic. To me most of the "arguments" have started off as legitimate concerns but then they get defensive because they are attacked for bringing something up and it devolves from there. To me there is a strong avoidance of any perceived conflict that it actual creates a lot more conflict because legitimate concerns are shoved aside. Just my two cents as one who was named called/cursed at for bringing up a concern.
     
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  11. mcherry

    mcherry Spam Slayer ☠️ & Moderator Extraordinaire

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    His thread still applies. But it's locked and I think the point of this thread is to get feedback from members.
     
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  12. bdm105

    bdm105 Well-Known Member

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    This is pretty close to my opinion and what I've seen. I think there's a big combination of people reading things in argumentative tones when they're not intended, people being offended easier than others, and attacking people for merely asking tough questions.

    Are there times where I think some people are nitpicking more than others? Yea but a lot of the times I also think it's constructive criticism or questions that are attacked for being brought up.

    You can't have a forum be an echo chamber that preaches to the choir because that's how it turns into parts of facebook and twitter (which is the worst)
     
  13. mcherry

    mcherry Spam Slayer ☠️ & Moderator Extraordinaire

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    I feel strongly about this, too. I don't want complaints or criticisms to go away. And I want folks to feel safe posting them. As I said in another thread somewhere, I think respectful dialogue is important. And it needs to happen on all sides.
     
  14. teee

    teee Well-Known Member

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    Piggy back on this. There is a pretty big avoidance of conflict. I've even reached out to VMP staff privately on here and just been ignored.

    Look, I know @PaulyB is too nice to say it. But I'm quite sure when VMP discussed posting a thread about toxic members, I was mentioned.

    I'll say it really went south for me when not only was it suggested that @a-b not be allowed to do her job but then I was told the shut the sticky pudding up about it. And then that person was allowed to stick around. This is a bit dramatic but seeing that person on here is a bit PTSD inducing. And yeah, I'm often in defensive mode nowadays. More liberal use of the ban hammer would be appreciated. And I'm not exempt from that. Call me out for sure. I've been known to eat my shorts (not literally, but @PaulyB will be soon, right?) and even apologize.
     
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  15. Heath

    Heath Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. I don't really have much more to contribute other than to say that I really think this is the heart of the problems, at least as I've noticed.
     
  16. BenMal

    BenMal Well-Known Member

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    I've definitely seen what's being referred to and I try to just ignore it, but it often ends up popping up in other places and then it goes on and on and on. And I can imagine so easily that this will happen right here in this thread. Look, I love interacting with everyone on this forum, but there's a point where I feel like I have to tune out because things get bad really quickly and I just don't feel the need to argue. I think it's definitely okay to voice complaints about VMP, but it often goes beyond that into really mean territory, and at that point I think a line does get crossed. But I'll leave it at that. Cause I don't want to argue with someone who is going to tell me I'm wrong.
     
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  17. PaulyB

    PaulyB Provider of Dank Solutions™ Staff Member

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    Complaints are welcomed, but its how those complaints are put forward. I would really like all complaints of any kind to go in the support thread, but I get when they get posted in context of the store thread, or guess thread. Like I said, I don't want to create a place where people can't put forth complaints, I just think there is a better way to do it.
    Totally! Again, I think putting all complaints into a support thread would help me keep track of them, and have better conversations about it, without taking away from the main point of the shipping/guess/store threads. What do you think?
     
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  18. bdm105

    bdm105 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have no issue with that. But those discussions are going to happen organically. For instance the Noname thing with it being limited to 1,500 not 1,000. Talking about that is going to have to happen in the VMP rap thread. Other complaints should be in their own thread and I feel like that happens sometimes but maybe not as often as it should. The thread about what exclusives/variants/etc means comes to mind as an example.
     
  19. PaulyB

    PaulyB Provider of Dank Solutions™ Staff Member

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    Yeah that situation was not good at all. And I think we could have handled it better (the staff, not the mods, they are too legit to quit, always). I think going forward there definitely needs to be more intentional usage of the temp ban, when things get too personal, or mean.


    also why you gotta mention shorts.... :D
     
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  20. bdm105

    bdm105 Well-Known Member

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    Plus @PaulyB I can only speak for myself but sometimes complaints and criticisms aren't meant from a support/work perspective. Sometimes they're just talk/discussion.

    That's part of the grey area staff being here has I guess though.
     
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